I have an E-Commerce site with tons of categories.  These categories live on each product page for easy navigation of the site.  This means that the entire site has some 500 internal links with optimized anchor text.  Is this an issue and if so .....what to do.

Amazing ..... this huge update (from what I read on other sites and listening to Matt) and almost nothing here on SEOMoz.....What is up with that.

Sorry to hear things are still bad for your site.  We are still suffering reduced traffic and have done a ton of work on backlinks, created a list of very old ugly backlinks and a few new ones that frankly must be negative SEO (yea all you people that want to jump in and say no it is not negative SEO ....that is very rare to non-existent...dont bother....I dont want to hear it....your are wrong...you are as niavie as you are a fool).

We have now sent 1000s of emails and or filled out contact forms for link removals from these sites .....and gues what.....ZERO reponces so we are creating a disavow file and will try and come back here and let you know how it goes.

More on the negative SEO.....we have some recent links (according the MAN himself) that are super suspect.  We did not ask for them and there is really no reason for thse site to link us except competitors trying to pile on the already diminised ranks.  Hey negative SEO guys.....Get a life...

I would love to throttle some penguins.

I thoughs so ...just checking.  I get that the PR is only updated periodically.  I just frankly find is super hypocrytical to even index these sites.  In fact I will go further and say that if Google should either.

1. Just ignore links from sites like these as part a sites link profile.

2. publish a list like a wanted board an allow you to simple disavow.

I know once again I think they should think like me and I know this will not going to happen....so off I go to play the game some more.  Expect it to become harder and harder for small or even medium sized business to play this game.  In a few short years page one will belong to the large companies.

I am determined to fix the link profile of this site.  I found 52k backlinks..... Needless to say lots of them are old and the site no longer exists but at least once done I will have a cleaned up link profile.  A new starting point.

Thanks again Ryan

Signed backlink sloger jw

Ryan what do you think about directories like this

http://www.getbacklinked.com/

I don't think they pass the smell test but some do have thousands of pages index at google and even have PR from 1 to 4 on a few of them.

These are kind of like dmoz (a good idea turned joke IMHO).

My inclination is to request an unlink because I personally think that any site that just lists sites should be nuked from the internet.

I have been making as bad any site that has a submit your link or other such button in the top menu bar.

jw

Cool....I will stick to the ones we found that are not natrual if we dont get a reponce to remove.... I am still going to be amazed if any of these sites repond but out of 52k links I almost have the list of domains to contact.  Stuck the exports into a Microsfot Access DB which makes them easier to click and categories.

Cheers

So when I finally get around to disavowing some of these links should I include domains that are now parked or no longer have a functioning site.  That is to say the links are no longer active.  The reason I ask is there are many like that which are sites which were obvious link farms.....so it google holding those against the site even though those site are no longer active...... I could create a section in the disavow..and comment label it something like

OLD links that show up using various tools but no longer seem to function but we are including in order to make sure the link profile of this site is clean.

????

My plan was to use your last statement as my approach.  "if search engines did not exist, would this link be here"?  Said perfectly.  Does it mean I will remove some good links....well maybe but if google is not indexing a site then I suspect it is not giving me juice anyway and there are tons of links that google is not indexing.  This site does have some nice links so hopefully cleaning this up will get the site out the the box where penguins are stored.

I used netpeak for these status....great tool but worried me a tad as Malwarebytes blocks some outgoing traffic that tool is trying to send to their web site.  I assume just stat info and not the content of my hard drive....LOL

Thanks for the bing and AHREFs thoughts.  I will go grab them also, netpeak them and pull them in to the ACCESS database where I am making a superset list of junk.  Unformtualy the list is something on the order of 1000 links.  Give are take a few.

Thanks to the both of you for your help.  Sorry for the tardy reply as I was in transit.  The client has agreed for us to try and contact these sites and request link removal.  If that does not work then we will put a disavow list together and try to get this link profile repaired.  Then we will work harder on some quality links.

It is still hard to swallow that a practice that was once rewarded now requires money to fix....guess we will just caulk that one up to "Life isn't always fair".

I am just going to take Google Recent, Majestic SEO, and Site Explorer put them all together and get to work.

Ryan if you can share the name of the tool that would might give me a better handle on the actual age of the link that would be great.  I don't really want to share the links publicly and have my client to get 100 of calls.  If you are really curious I can PM details to you.

I suppose we would consider a reconsideration request if once these ugly backlinks are removed or disavowed the traffic does not return.  It is tough to think that something that was done 6 years ago now has such a huge cost.  I still think that if you are going to change such a fundamental rule (or finally actually inforce it might be a better way to put it) that you should allow people to simply reset their link profiles via the Disavow tool..... but hey .....no one is going to give me Matt's job anytime soon.

In the case of this site I watch the traffic fade starting the day of Penguin and it dropped more over the course of something like 5 days......It seems pretty clear Penguin implementation is the cause of the traffic lose also becuase long overdue deep on-page work did not help one bit.

Let the hours and hours of work begin....Ugh

I suppose one good thing about trying to get the links actaully removed is that traffic might start to recover during the effort as opposed to load up the disavow and wait.  In that sense we will start with the most agregious sites first.

The one thing I am still puzzled about is the 2012 backlink that are so harmful.  It is hard not to conclude this site is under attack by competitors.  I know everyone like to say this is rare but hey if you are being attacked then for your the stat is 100% ...not rare......why else would really scummy sites be backlinking to this site.  Please someone tell me a reason other than the 3 I have describe in this thread.

Ryan thanks again for all the discussion.  I will huddle up with my client and see how he wants to proceed. My only doubt that this is what is needed to escape the penguin update is we did not receive the unnatural links notice from Google.

Thanks much for the dialogue. Yes some time it is hard for me to be as dispassionate about this subject since I help customers with all aspects
of their web presence.  I don’t have 100s of customers and take a special interest in each one of them and get to know
them.

Trust me I would try to be a little more articulate than “Google Sucks” if I really wanted to get into that futile black hole.   If all I wanted to do was take a short cut and go for the perceived easy fix then I would have done that and not posted this and other posts I have made.  I have learned that to go slowly it to go smartly when it comes to reacting to SEO issue.  As a type A trust me this takes great restraint.

The tough thing as you know is that now this company has less sales and therefore less money to fix the mess.

I understand this past transgression has to be overcome but these recent links for porn sites and link farms are not my doing and truth be told those are the ones that have me mad.

There is only three reasons I can think for them

1. Ransom to remove the link.  I have read that this is going on.

2. Competitive Bad SEO.  I truly suspect there might be some of this by looking at the links from early 2012 and recently (pilling on)

3. Some perception that by linking to a site with decent PR that you life your scamy site up in the rankings.

With respect to taking the high road on getting links removed do you actually take the time to visit each site and look for a valid email address or do you simply send a mass email to [email protected] since all reputable sites should have either that or abuse@ as valid emails addresses and if they do not then shouldn’t that be enough effort spent to request links be removed?

I understand all your say and this company did pay for link farm nonsense.  They did not know better.  I suspect many of us dont know when our Doctor screws up.  We dont have the training.  A company 5 or 10 years ago paid for SEO and lazy SEO companies bought results on farms and got rich doing 1 hours work and charging $2k a month.  Matt basicly acknoledges this on the vid and basicly says he understands and you should work to clean it up.  Yes I know he says you made the mess so clean it up before you ask us to.  I get it.  I get it.  I hate it but I get it.

It's not a perfect world, I get that but since the rules changed I think Google should just let people disavow and not pay all this money to try and get these links removed.  That is my opinion.  Everyone has one......or 100...LOL

So you think companies that have backlinks placed on porn sites deserver what they get and should have to clean it up.  You think that is the responsibility of the reputable company that did nothing wrong.  Yes this company unknowingly participated in link farm nonsense but has not done sor for at least 5 years and is still gettting these links and they are not criminal.  They are hard working people that made a mistake.

Thasnks for the detailed anwers about your thoughts on the tool.

I guess what I will do is pick 20 of the really big scum bags from recent links and send an "Please ...Pretty please ...nice polite email and see what happens"  I will leave off the deserved PS: You scum bag....get a life.  It is just wrong....yea I know life is not fair.

Check out this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM

Just like SEO wtih even higher stakes.

Thanks for the long reply.  We can talk about this a long time but it is like polotics in that you bring your life experence tot he discussion.

Let’s talk about what I consider link stealing.  A company that links to you to harm or hold you for ransom.   I did hear Matt say you have to make effort to get them to unlink you but frankly the idea that a reputable company has to spend hard earned money asking people that boldly place a backlink on their site which were never requested is just wrong. It is web equivalent of a hit and run or a kidnapping.   After carefully looking at some of the backlinks just before April 2012 and lately I am pretty convinced that this site has been attacked by the competition.   Why would a Cech porn site like to a reputable USA only e-commerce site.  This company should not have to put money into requesting those links be removed.  Google should allow a company to just disavow this type of attack.

I will go back to my customer and let him decided but my inclination is to just make a list of the link stealer and disavow them.
So beyond this philosophical  conversation let’s talk about the disavow tool.  I know it is new and perhaps I should just ice this effort  for 3 weeks but:

1. Do you think it is bad to list sites that might 404 but that show as 200 and ping but don’t pull up a site.  Will the site be penalized more for not figuring out which sites are currently active?

2. I am inclined to simply disavow all sites that are not indexed in Google.  See anything wrong with that?  I have looked at 100s of them now and they are all just the type of site that is a blight to the internet.   Ironically most of them are sites that just serve up AdWords.  Well hypocritical is really a better word.

Thanks for replying.  I have done extensive reading here on SEOmoz and I am aware of these concerns.

I am 100% sure this site was hit by  Penguin.  I watched the ranking drop in the 3 or 4 days folling Penguin.    Traffic is about 35% of what it was pre peguin. No webmaster message for Google.   I have worked extensively on on-page but this site is in trouble becuase of linking....well I am as sure as I can be....there is nothing 100% sure in SEO.

The link profile of this site sucks but it is a relevant ecommerce site and has decent traffic right up to Penguin..  Years ago the owner hired a couple of different Black Hat SEO's who just wanted his money so those links are still haunting the site.  Out of the 2534 backlink domains I have been able to identify about 1000 have no google indexed pages.  Yes I know that does not mean they are all bad but for sure about 1/2 of the backlinks to this site are hurting and not helping.

Recently created links are link farm silly stuff, even a Cech porn site   These make me think Bad SEO as we certainly did not ask for these links and the only reason any of thse links would have been create are either Bad SEO or a site that wants to charge to have the link removed.

As for contacting these irreputable scum bags.   No offence but that is a joke.  I am suppose to send emails to 1000s of these sites when they are just trash.  They will never take the link down and it will be a complete waste of time.

I do not plan to use the disavow indescremently.  That is why I am doing my homework and asking questions now.  I plan to make one list and then wait at least 1 month to see the results.

What I want to do is re-set the link profile of the site and then work on some decent back link building.  Don't you think the tool should be used for that.  I listened to Matt talk about this tool and it was clear to me that he indicated that you could distance yourslef from practices in the past you should not have been a part of .....that is what I want to do.

For this site there is also the question of it being under attack from competitors.  Take for example this site http://darwinsweb.com  Google shows that this site link to the site I am working on multiple times this month.  This site is PR 0 with one page ranked in Google (who know why).  This site is a virus and I did not ask to be on it and I will not write them and ask to be removed.  I want to tell google to not associate the site I am working with these type of scum bags.

Perhaps a better question to ask is what type of site should I not include in a disavow.

Like I said I found multiple domains that NetPeak shows all to the same IP address.  Should I include this or will Google already know about this type of nonsense and discount it.  Why should their be harm in telling google to not include a domain I know is harmful even if it is a dead site.

I heard Matt say you can use this tool as a bit of a reset button and that is what I am planning to do.  I did hear him say you are to contact these sites but come on....that is a joke...these sites I am talking about are so egregious they only exist as 1. black hat link farms, or 2. Bad SEO attack tools or 3. link randsome or all the above.   I can't believe Matt really thinks I should contact them.

With 35% of old traffic levels I have to do something meaningful.  Looking at the link profile there is litle doubt it is harmful.

I am trying to work up a list of Domains to disavow from old SEO black hat (long time ago) and I think some recent bad SEO against the site.  I found a few good articles here and started the process.  Very daunting even on a site that never had a lot of link work done on it.  One particular issue has my attention and need advice on what to do with it.

I find 100s of backlinks that all resolve to the same IP 72.215.225.9 .  Has anyone else seen this one.  These are sites such as mengems.com or http://www.downey-realestate.com .  I am using NetPeak Checker to grab stats on the backlinks after gathering backlinks for 5 different sites.  These site all seem to come from Majesticseo and sure enough if I ping any of them they return 72.215.225.9 on at first and then go not found.  They return a 200 in NetPeak .  I was hoping not open thousands of backlinks to see if they existing before I create my Disavow list.

Couple of questions.

1. Any harm in putting these on the disavow if in fact they really don't exist anymore?  Do the disavow police not like your list being longer than it needs to be ?  I am leaning to just leaving all of them off my list.  Seems I read something that says dont ask google to disavow something that no longer exists because they are not penalizing you for it.

2. If I start with the most egregious Bad  and ex-black hat domains and submit them, wait 3 weeks and the Penguin hit rankings do not recover at all then how to add to the list.  Do I leave all the original disavows on the list, add to it and resubmit ?

3. My first thought was to simple send a list of all domain that have no Google indexed pages regardless of return status code.  Basicly saying please clean the slate of this crap.....thoughts on this?

Thanks

jw

Thanks for the reply.  I gathered from additional resources that there is no one site. Nor any tool that properly evaluates them as spam sites so I guess I am rolling up my sleves to get the work done.

There are some obvious site I need to diavow so I will start with them.   I have not read about how you resubmit disavow but I guess you just add to the list and send it again.  I will try to make this first pass rather comprehensive.

I did read about another post which seems to indicate that one you have your list there is a tool to help you evalute the sites.

http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-to-check-which-links-can-harm-your-sites-rankingsI will try to post my experience with trying to use this method.

I am trying to create a valid list of backlink domain to disavow after a 50% traffic cut by Penguin......problem is I have now pulled lists from 4 tool and the lists are all different.  I find a toxic domain from the tool run on LinkResearchTools and look on Google and Site Explorer and the toxic link does not even show.  I look at the page and sure enough the link from year ago on a link farm is there.

Is there really a rue definitive tool that will give me a list of all links?  Better yet is there a tool that will help me evaluate which domain to disavow ?  I want to follow Dr. Pete's advice and go slow but I am also anxious to cut ties with SEO work done by someone else in the hay day of link farm SEO and frankly looking at resent links some Bad SEO by competitors.

The traffic was cut in 1/2 with Penguin.  The link profile sucks but I am working on it.  I guess I will start by disavowing the obviously bad site and give it a few weeks.  The thing that is puzzling is the few good links we have will be exact match anchor becuse the name of the site is an exact match.  This is the EMD delima.

Lets say you have an legitimate EMD for a domain that is a ecommerce site with reasonable content.  The site traffic was cut in half by Penguin.  You think one of the main reasons that you were hit is old SEO black hat link building with Anchor that is exact match.....The catch 22 an exact match achor is the EMD.  I want to disavow some of these old black hat backlinks and obviously I will nuke the ones from the spammy sites first and see what happens.

What about the backlinks that have achor of emd.com (the company name and as it so happens a valid EMD) or just EMD.  If the hit is coming from every single link becuase they are all exact match becuase that is the proper legit match and not some attempt to game the system......What the heck do you do?

I get the War on spammy EMDs but I hope the legit ones are not hit even more.  For one thing google should just have this ironic creteria for excluding EMDs....if they are running AdWords....they are 95% spam sites.....I love the irony of that one.  I am betting lots of these mange to still get listed.

Our rankings are still fluctuating wildly.  Up and down 10 to 35 places from Moz campaign crawl to the next crawl.   This has been going on for months.  It makes little sense.  A keyword that is up 10 one crawl might be down 35 the next and the same keyword might then be up 45 in the next crawl.  It is just non sense.

Are others experiencing this crazy swing up and down ?

Thank for clearing that up Rand.  As I said we are seeing wild gyrations in rankings.   In the 3 years I have been doing SEO for a few sites I have never seen anything like it. Hence my rant about Google the almighty machine and their continued march away from the little guy.  The little guy does not pay the bills or create more billions... I get that. I realize that is a different topic.

Thanks for the details on the ranking.

Yes I use some of the other tools here on Moz.  I am just trying to understand what the ranking interval was and based on what I saw I thought it was much older.

I use to use Advanced Web Rankings but my subscription ran out and did not really want to pay for it again but I guess if I want rankings that are at all current I will need to use some program.  Only now as I understand it you have to be careful or you will get penalized for that.  You can bet Target, REI, Amazon, Bizrate (a total useless piece of crap), all do just as they please and do not get penalized because they spend million on PPC.

In the last 3 years every move made is more of a move to kick the little guy to the curb.  This will only accelerate in the comping years.  In 3 to 5 year page one will be 100% paid.....mark my words....it is coming.

Actually for me is seems to be about 2 months old.  We were hit hard by penguin and it seems I am just now seeing that April debacal hit the rankings page.

Anyway.... perhaps it is ok when things are running smooth but in trying to monitor rankings more closely it seems quite useless.....

I know some people will want to jump on here and tell me I can't monitor rankings that closely that it is a fools game.  Please don't bother ....I am tired of being preached to about big picture....yea there is that but anyone that had traffic cut in half needs to look at rankings weekly for a while.

Our rankings are fluctuation wildly from week to week.  On page one for days and then no were and then back to page one and then to page 5 and then no where and back to page one.  Google sucks and is penalizing white hats and still rewarding total spam.

Take any comparisons shopping site.  That is not a site.  It is a site that lists sites.  That is spam.

Just how lagged are the rankings on SEOMoz Campaigns?  They seems to be weeks behind what  I actaully see.

Have you ever known anyone to do linkbuilding (or SEO for that matter) on a revenue share/commission basis.  I have not heard of this being done but it seem that a good Link Builder would not be afraid of having more upside rather than a fixed amount of money with no skin in the game.

The one downside to this is how is this measured.  Does the client decided?  Does the client show the books and averages the last years revenue and anything over that average is share profit at say 80/20 .

My focus is strictly e-commerce sites.

At the heart of every algo change is revenue not fairness.  To believe otherwise is to be naive.

John Pring hit the nail square on the head.  If you don't increase sales who really cares if you increased rankings.  Many SEO companies use Rankings as a measure of success.  While it is one factor if that is how they want to be paid......run!  An hide!

We have very little back-link profile and most of these links are from silly sites that back-link to sites trying to build Directories to game the system.  So it sounds like your advice is look at them and if not suspect and not back anchor text then recover them otherwise leave them 404

https://www.vbulletin.com/

Most point to the home page but some to category or product pages.

We are working on onpage but wondering what if anything to do with this old stale back-links

Try http://www.liquidweb.com/ they have all manner of hosting packages.  My dedicated server is there and I host a number of wordpress sites with no issues.  Their service is top notch and 24X7.  You will not be disappointed.

Thanks for the thoughts.  I get it.  Anyone doing SEO on a site can only read and react with what is deemed appropriate and prudent changes.

I resubmitted a few key pages and was seeing if there was a quick reaction.  I have never done this before and just thought it was strange and wondered if anyone had an explanation.  I will go back to waiting for Moz to crawl and send me my campaigns reports.

Thanks to you both for the input.   I am just very frustrated.  We never received any warning from Google about link farms.  Have really not done any back-linking in 5 or 6 years, have never been hit by any algorithmic change till now.  While I figured one day it might happen it does not make it any less frustrating.

I realize I am too far down in the details those that say on here to just wait are nuts. Obviously some action is required or we would not have been knocked down.

Ah...ok I see that point and did not obviously look at the link profile.

I am afraid I am quite cynical about the penguin update.  While I appreciate that it would be difficult to create an algorithm that does a 100% good job based on what you are seeing the algorithm is quite flawed.

There were a number of things written about EDMs and how they were being punished but perhaps the fact that it is an EDM in this case helped.

For keyword cowboy tickets ?

For that term that site looks very similar to the other sites on page one?  In fact for my money it is more relevant than all the national sites that are above it.

Hard to judge without knowing more details.

I would say they went up because:

1. some site above you were unjustly removed.  It is happening. Yes this is my opinion.

2.  Some really crappy sites were removed.  What people say penguin was suppose to do and I support if in fact they get it sorted out to the point were the stop doing #1.

I will take a look.  I have never monitored rankings this closely before but we are making on-page changes and resubmitting in webmaster to try in help with the huge hit from Penguin.

So many opinions on things to do / change out there it is hard to know what to do but I figured a complete re-visit of key page on-page for all the product category pages was the first step.

So much is written about SEO but so little of it covers the unique issue that you have if you are doing e-commerce seo....for example if I have a category page and display 50 products per page on that category and 40 of the product have the keyword of the page in the product name.  There is no way to really reduce the stuffing.  The irony is I could reduce the stuffing but it would make the site less effective/ appropriate for the end user of the site.

If the on-page changed do not help I guess we will turn attention to getting more good backlinks to offset the non-sense site that have backlink to us for no good reason.

Back-links - I could rail for hours about this topic.

+1 on the same thing happened to a few sites we work on.  We have now made all the changes we can to on-page and technical and will let that stew for a few weeks before we consider anything else.  Some traffic has returned but there is a long way to go.

In the mean time spending non-ROI money on PPC.  Ugh

Would sure be nice if the webmaster tool recommendations would keep sync with Algorithmic changes so you could properly react to all the silly black and white creatures.

Us the SEOmoz on-page optimization tool to analyze your page.  It will give you tips on what to change and tell you if you are keyword stuffing etc.

Does anyone else see their organic rankings fluctuating wildly.  I have been tracking a few key keywords by literaly typing them in each morning and looking at results.

The pages I have been doing this for where without any doubt affected by Penguin as you can see the huge drop in traffic directly correlated to the Pegnuin deployment.

What is strange is one day these phrases will be on page one position 3 and two days later but on page3 to 5 or not ranked.  Four days later back on page 1.  These are wild fluctuations so it appears to me that I am observing Penguin tweaking ?  Just wish the tweaking would stop on one of the days were our phases for this particular site are on page one.

Most people would check rankings weekly, monthly or quarter and would not perhaps be observing these crazy swings?

Thought?

I am a Pinnacle Cart re-seller and it is a good full featured cart.  The main thing is to pick a cart that meets your needs and budget.  If you want to talk more about your needs PM me and we can talk about your criteria.

It is important to create a criteria list so you can easily compare carts.  Do you need?

1. One page check out (I highly recommend this)

2. Do you want / need product reviews

3. Gift cards

4. PCI Compliance ?

5. What is is shipping pricing - does the cart support it?

6. Who is your merchant service provider?  Are they supported.

7. Do you need Sub-Product skus for drop shipping.

8. Want to market to people that abandon their carts ?

9. Of course SEO friendly (does not mean SEO perfect)

10.. etc.etc

So first make the list and then compare the carts.

I have discover that I have 288 back-links that 404.  Many of them come from suspect sites.  Do I 301 these backlinks so webmasters does not show these errors or to I leave them 404 as a vote that I don't like those unasked for backlinks ?

Thanks Cyrus I am not sure what you mean by

"The meta description aside, anywhere your money keyword phrase is used that it can count is a place you want to be careful about."

You mean not to abuse Anchor Text ?  When you domain and company name are both an EDM (a great thing to have in the past) it is hard not to use it in Anchor.  I guess what you are saying is dont use mysite.com as anchor instead use My Site or Here?

Oh right now I have mysite.com in the title and in many of the meta descriptions so it sounds like I should remove it from one or the other.

I have been looking closely at my backlinks.  I readily admin that I have not worked on backlinks in years since for e-commerce there is little white hat opportunity but here is what I find in doing a detailed analysis.

I mostly have back links that are pointing to our nicely ranked site (well it use to be pre-penguin) being hyjacked by crappy sites that just put us on the their site in order to try and rank.  I have no way to prevent this.  They are like a cancer.  Point me to the Doctor.

Is Goggle penalizing us for these guys listing us in long pages list to create pages that obviously exist for one reason...... To display Adword Ads....isn't that a twist that simply sucks for use but has Google making money either way.

If they want to penalize us for them stealing our link then we should get a say in accepting the link.

Advice on dealing with this?  Do I have to hire someone to create enough good links to overcome this trash that I have no control over ?

Perhaps my competitors are doing this.  I simply can't tell.

Any advice is appriciated.

Very good points.  I would like the company name (same as domain name) to go either in the title of the description but I like your idea to put it in the Description and re-think the title for a call to action.

In some cases Google is using info from my footer instead of the Meta Description in the SERPs?

I am beginning to realize that being an SEO is like being a Doctor or a Lawyer.   You get to practice your entire career and people actually tolerate that behavior.

Oh and thanks for letting me know that I am not alone staring at the dark object on the floor and wonder were it took so much traffic.  Until April 24th I had no idea shadows were black and white and liked the cold.

I guess I should also mention that the name of this company is also an Exact Domain Match (EDM) of a great key word within this industry.

So I am now afraid that if I don't take out all my references to the actually company name out of the Description I will get penalized for stuffing.

Putting the name of the company is very typical for e-commerce company.